Split the Corner Podcast
2 ex bartenders have their favorite bar conversations. Your home for phone down bar discussions on movies, music, sports, history, hypotheticals and whatever else we feel like.
Split the Corner Podcast
Season 1, Episode 11: Cheesesteaks and Baseball...That's What Philadelphia Does!
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People of Philadelphia rejoice for today is your day. It is officially National Cheesesteak Day and we are going full-blown Philly for today's episode. Kaz and Kyle are paying homage to the world's greatest sandwich by getting into the nuance, history, and regionally specific necessities surrounding this first ballot hall of fame food. Whether you are a "wiz wit" or a "wiz witout", we've got you covered. And if that wasn't enough, we are taking the sandwich to the ballpark and getting hyped for the return of America's pastime: baseball. Coming off a disappointing loss in the championship game of the World Baseball Classic for Team USA, the guys are digging into this year's Philadelphia Phillies and whether or not this will be the year that we finally get to raise another pennant at Citizen's Bank Park. We're keeping it in Philly today, so put on your pinstripes, grab your favorite Phanatic stuffy, and let's get going around the base path.
Welcome to Split the Corner. What can we get you? What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Split the Corner podcast. My name is Kyle, and with me as always is my good friend and co-host, Kaz. Kaz, how are you feeling today, bud?
SPEAKER_00Feeling great, man.
SPEAKER_02I'm feeling great. Good. I'm loving the positivity. And speaking of which, I'd like to just take a minute before we dive into anything else. Now that we've passed the 10-episode threshold of the Split the Corner podcast in our previous episode, I want to take a second to say thank you to everybody who's taking the time to listen and who's taking the time to give us feedback and all of that. And it's been a lot of fun to do this, and we've been having a good time. And I think what we started talking about doing this in like last summer, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, realistically like putting putting a goal and and dates and plans and and yeah, like we we've always kind of kicked around, you know, oh, that'd be great for podcasts. But saying that, you know, we might have enough stuff to actually get this going, I'd say last summer. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And just the feedback's been great, and we've been really happy that the the people that have reached out and and talked to us about it have uh had a lot of good things to say. So from the whole team here at Split the Corner, all two of us, thank you, everybody, and uh we're looking forward to bringing you at least 10 more. Yeah, applause button. Applause button. Hooray. Uh with all that being said, today is a really big day, guys. Do you want to tell the people why?
SPEAKER_00Today's Philadelphia, man. Today's about the greatest sandwich on the planet, created right here in the heart of our fair city, and we are talking not only about the cheesesteak, but one of my favorite places to get a cheesesteak, Citizens Bank Park during the season. We're talking baseball, we're talking opening day, we are talking your Philadelphia Phillies. So happy national cheesesteak day, everybody. Hooray. All right, so let's start with a little backstory, right? Do you know do you know the history of of the cheesesteak as it as it is?
SPEAKER_02As somebody who has lived in or around Philadelphia for most of my adult life, I don't know enough about it.
SPEAKER_00Please enlighten me. All right, so we're gonna the the quick version. So Pat's comes first, right? Everybody knows Pat's and Gino's. Pat's comes first, everyone admits it. Uh, in the 1930s, uh, Pat had a hot dog cart right around the corner of Wharton and Passyunk, um, which is right where Pat's is today. And his hot dog cart fed uh a large portion of South Philly, and then one day he has his brother uh pick up something else. He's just, you know, I don't I don't think we should serve hot dogs today. Why don't you grab something else? And he says, Well, why don't I grab this, you know, this steak meat? And he says, sure. And he throws the steak meat on the hot dog buns, and people love it, and they go, Oh my god, we've just invented the steak sandwich. And uh shortly after, the guy that owned the building that becomes that is Pat's now says, Hey man, you don't need to stand outside in the cold. You can come make your sandwiches in here, and eventually Pat buys the building, and Gino's opens later. Uh Jim's opens later, DeLassandro's opens later. Um but yeah, which was my pound cheese steak. Uh it it uh it starts with Pat and it starts with uh shaved steak meat on a hot dog roll, uh, which is pretty much how they still make it to this day. Um that being said, what we've become known for is is not only the cheesesteak, but the way you order it, right? You you want cheese whiz and some onions, you are stepping up to that window for a whiz whit. You want cheese whiz and no onions? You're getting that whiz whit out, right? So how do how do you I know we've had a cheese episode. Do you put cheese on the cheesesteak? Wait, do you count cheese whiz as cheese?
SPEAKER_02I like that you turned that into a two-parter, and I have very strong opinions on both of them. But as I have previously established on this very program, A, no, I'm not getting cheese on my steak sandwich, and B, no, cheese whiz is gross. I don't know if it counts as cheese. I just want to get it out there that it's gross. Cheese in a can is gross, but I'm not getting cheese on my cheese steak because I think it's just too overwhelming and I don't like the flavor. So the way I order my cheese steak is wit, no cheese, wit, but if they have jalapenos or some some long hots or something they can throw on that bad boy, I'm all for it. A little hot sauce on it, good to go.
SPEAKER_00All right, so we'll get to that in one second. Um, for those of you out there that are gonna be nerds about this, the original cheese on the cheese steak, the the first cheese to ever go on a steak sandwich was Provolone. Okay, that's gonna seem sacrilegious to a lot of South Philly peoples, but it was. Um fun facts that go with the cheese on the cheese steak. Kraft Foods admits that one quarter of all cheese whiz sales happen in the Philadelphia, South Jersey area. More impressively, almost 50% of all craft white singles are sold in the South Philly, South Jersey area. So the cheese steak is consuming more cheese than Wisconsin. There you go. Take that. All right, so I also have an opinion. I I go either Cooper Sharp or White American. I do like the seeded roll. Uh, my personal favorites, if you're looking for the recommendations, I like John's roast pork. Um, both for their roast pork and for their cheesesteak. Shout out. Um, however, when you said jalapeno, I was going to ask you for favorite cheesesteak variation, right? Because when you say cheesesteak, you say place that puts the best meat and cheese on roll, right? So we're when we're judging a cheesesteak competition, we're judging bread, meat, cheese. That's it.
SPEAKER_02Well, in that case, I would also like to do a quick shout out to Joe's at uh Frankfurt and Gerrard, which is a really great spot that I came to enjoy when I was working in that area of Philadelphia. But as far as variations go, I'll put whatever you got on it as long as it's not cheese. Like I really enjoy when they put on the hot pepper relish. In fact, I would put hot pepper relish on my breakfast cereal given the opportunity. But I mean, if they have some of that, I'm throwing it on there. Onions, I don't care if it's a red onion, I don't care if it's a white onion, throw that bad boy on there.
SPEAKER_00I'm stuck on the hot pepper relish in the breakfast cereal. I'm oh it was a metaphor. It falls through the Cheerios and then the milk is all pink.
SPEAKER_02But it sticks to your lucky charms.
SPEAKER_00Does it go like in a in like a like a pocket, like a mini wheat filled with it dusted with it was an it was a point.
SPEAKER_02It was it was said to emphasize the point that I really enjoyed hot pepper relish. I was painting a word picture about my enjoyment of stop making that face. Those I know it's an audio medium, but he's making very disgusted faces at my attempt to emphasize my love of hot pepper relish.
SPEAKER_00All right, so the but the pepper. So I think so. My my call out for uh for unique cheesesteak variations. I am currently hooked on uh Woodrow Sandwich Shop on South Street, does a truffle whiz cheesesteak with sweet pepper mayo, and it's uh outstanding. It's just it's a combination of flavors that I just I crave, and and it's the only place that that hits that button, man. That's a it's a heck of a sandwich.
SPEAKER_02Um no disrespect to that particular spot, but when you describe truffle cheese, that is just cheese with B.O. That's the dude, truffle's gnarly. Oh, I love some truffle. Ugh. It tastes like sock. No, that's like well-worn sock. That's terrible, man. Again, I'm sure the cheesesteak itself is fine, but you're putting truffle whiz. Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_00I truffle, I'd put truffle whiz on some cereal. Oh, I can taste it. See? See? Fair enough. Little truffle whiz Cheerio. I can picture the box. B looks all French.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's funny. I'd think you'd be hard-pressed to find another city in the country as associated with their regional food as Philadelphia is with the cheesesteak. It's out there, don't get me wrong. Like there are a lot of cities out there that have a lot of signature dishes that are ubiquitous to their uh region. However, if you ever look at like a kids' map at a chain restaurant, it has you know the outline of the United States and it's marking all the major cities. If you are looking at Philadelphia, Philadelphia is going to be marked by one of two things. The first thing is going to be the Liberty Bell, the second thing is going to be a cheesesteak. I can't think of another place. Like, what is LA famous for, aside from tacos? But you know, it's not really their tacos, it's just a whole bunch of people came from a whole bunch of other places.
SPEAKER_00Well, I okay, so New York gets pizza, right? Certainly, but you don't see New York honorable mention to some bagels the same way we get honorable mention to a soft pretzel, right? Certainly. And then maybe Buffalo wings. But is being like synonymous with Buffalo? I would agree, I would agree with that, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02However, if Buffalo is ever marked on a map, is it used, do they use a Buffalo wing? Because I've I've never seen it. I mean, maybe Buffalo, you know, is a smaller metropolitan area, so maybe it doesn't get represented on these maps quite as much, but Philadelphia is a cheesesteak.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm thinking of it from the perspective of like if you're looking at a menu, right, and at what is the cheesesteak has the word Philly in front of it, the wings have the word buffalo in front of it, the pizza might have the word New York in front of it, or Chicago or right. Pizza goes that's a good point. Pizza, Detroit pizza, Chicago pizza. Detroit is a pizza? Yeah, it's a square one. Um, so does New York get cheesecake then? Is that more synonymous? Is cheesecake? No, absolutely not. You don't think New York style cheesecake is more is is more brand specific than New York style pizza? I don't see a whole lot of other people fighting over cheesecake.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't really see a whole lot of people. Well, I don't think there's that many other variations on cheesecake.
SPEAKER_00Well, but it's that's the point, right? Are there that many variations on wings? You know, like how come we have buffalo wings but we don't have Kentucky wings? Just many chickens in Kentucky. Well, it's buffalo sauce.
SPEAKER_02It's not necessarily the fact that you're getting buffalo wings. If you're getting buffalo wings, you're getting wings with buffalo sauce on them. If you're getting Kentucky wings, it might have like some sort of bourbon maple glaze or something, or you're getting barbecue wings, or you're getting, you know, garlic parmesan wings. Those aren't considered garlic parmesan buffalo wings because they don't have the sauce on them.
SPEAKER_00Well, if you go to Buffalo Wild Wings, they are wild touches. But it but it's a you know, it it I think the specificity is exactly what we're talking about, right? Because you can say, all right, well, Seattle is known, Washington's known for its coffee. But that's not super specific. That'd be like saying Philly's known for its sandwiches. No, Philly's not. It Philly has great sandwiches, sure. And shout out to Hoagie's. Um, but you know, uh New England has grinders, which are pretty much the same thing. Um, but some of them are hot. Uh so it's in the specificity that that we're making the argument, because the South has barbecue.
SPEAKER_02But okay, hold on. I think I can I think I can bring this home. If you're in Philadelphia and you order a Philly cheesesteak, they're using a very specific type of bread, correct? Nine times out of ten, a good cheesesteak comes on an Amaroso roll.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a a long roll of some sort. Yeah, Licios or shout out to all the bakeries.
SPEAKER_02But here's the thing if you go outside of Philadelphia and you order a Philly cheesesteak and they're not using a bread that is regionally specific to Philadelphia, you're probably gonna be like, bluff, as a Philadelphian. But if you go outside of Buffalo and you get Buffalo wings in Boise, Idaho, chances are it's gonna be the same sauce. So if you're getting a Philly cheesesteak, I know I've what was I was in Colorado a few years ago and I went to a bakery or uh excuse me, a bar that had you know some Philadelphia-based owners, and they had their bread flown in. Like that was one part of their delivery was Philly bread to give you that authentic experience. So I think where the cheesesteak separates itself from the buffalo wing is there are very specific things that Philadelphians notice about their cheesesteaks that maybe other people wouldn't because you're not having a different experience in Boise as you are from Buffalo.
SPEAKER_00Have you had Buffalo wings in Buffalo? I've never been to Buffalo. I've been to Buffalo, I've never had Buffalo wings there. See, that just feels like a missed opportunity too. It was. It definitely was. What did you have? A salad? I think we were just passing through. I don't I think it was like hotel food or whatever, and we just we grabbed something and and what do you have? A ham and turkey? What do you think? We were out the next day. Some some sort of microwave something or other. Uh I don't know, man.
SPEAKER_02I think the cheesesteak, as you said, best sandwich on the planet. And I think that as Philadelphians, we maybe take it for granted sometime, but go and have a cheesesteak outside of Philly sometime and let them tell you it's Philly. Let them say Philly cheesesteak, and then you you try that bad boy and you let me know what the how they did. Because it's not gonna be the same.
SPEAKER_00No, and it's gonna come, it's gonna come with something weird. You know, the everywhere every time someone tries to put their regional spin on it, no, there's a difference. Truffle cheese whiz is adding it it that's like that's like switching up the meat type, you know, and going from ribeye to filet, right? Like that's you're you're classing up one ingredient, you know, you're upping the bread quality or something like that. I'm talking about when you're dog. I'm talking about when you get one out west and it comes with lettuce and tomato and avocado. Right. You know, or or you get one well, damn, you go far you you go just as far west as Lancaster, and most of them come with tomato sauce on them. That just seems wrong. I it seems like a different thing. Like, that's you know, like it call it a pizza steak or call it a uh cheese steak parm or something like that. Like, there's gotta be a way that again, we're judging cheesesteaks. It's bread, meat, cheese. Stop. Once you've once you've covered bread, meat, cheese, stop. You're done.
SPEAKER_02Put some onions in it if you can.
SPEAKER_00Are you getting a cheesesteak at the ballpark? 100%. Yeah. That's a like I said earlier. One of the things that is is my favorite time to enjoy a cheesesteak is to get one in the middle of the summer at a baseball game and to stand there at the tables in the outfield and you know, lean over the you know, lean over the plate and and drip messy cheesesteak all over the wrapper while I watch the fills from the outfield, right? There is there is something about the ambiance of the stadium that makes the food taste different. I'd agree with that. You know, it it yes, it's probably more money than I should be paying for a cheesesteak of that quality, but I understand that I'm, you know, some of it is some of it is atmosphere. Sure.
SPEAKER_02And now that we are in this season, as baseball season opens in just a couple of days, I cannot tell you how excited I am. I've been very upfront about about it on this show that baseball is my favorite sport, and we are in a a good year for baseball because we just saw the end of the world baseball classic. Did you root on team USA?
SPEAKER_00I did. I and and you are my baseball sounding board, right? So if I have a an opinion or think that I you know that I don't understand something, you are the first person that I that I turn to for for most things baseball. But the the WBC feels like as a soccer fan, that's my wheelhouse, right? You've now introduced an international competition. Like as a soccer fan, we get we get an international window. We understand what it means to, you know, to leave your your team jersey behind and and put on a USA jersey, put on a national team jersey, right? And we just came right out of the Olympics. So, you know, we had fun rooting for Team USA for a little bit during the Olympics and came out of that, and we root for Team USA baseball, and we come out of that, and we're gonna go root for Team USA soccer. So it's a it's a good time to be a fan of national sporting activities.
SPEAKER_02I really enjoyed the WBC this year, specifically because my son is is old enough now that he really enjoys the game of baseball. And I mean, he woke up on the first day of the tournament and was like, hey dad, Japan and Chinese Taipei are playing. And it was five o'clock in the morning, and I couldn't tell him go back to bed because I've been sitting here hyping the WBC for the last six months, and he's just all excited. And you know, Shohei Otani obviously was playing for Japan, and we were talking about the way Japanese players attack the plate versus the way Americans are typically going after the ball, or Venezuelans or Puerto Ricans, or the guys from the DR. And it was a really great experience to just be able to kind of wax poetic about baseball for a little bit and and watch people that we're not going to normally get to see, specifically in, you know, the specific uh, specifically the Japanese players and the the players from from Asia, because those guys, it's a different ball game. I mean, it's the same game, but they approach it so much differently than Americans do. Uh, you know, they're they're attacking fundamentals and doing those kinds of things. If the ball doesn't go over the fence every hit or every time, that's fine because they're on base. And I cannot stress to you enough how much I have told my my kid over and over and over home runs are great, but home runs with guys on base are better. So you want to get guys on base, and I think that's the most important thing. And I'm I'm trying to get him to understand that you don't need to belt the ball every time. And I think that was the downfall of the United States in this past WBC. Uh, for those of you who did not follow, the United States put together one of the most killer lineups in the history of baseball. They had New York Yankees, perennial all star, three time MVP, right fielder Aaron Judge is the captain, uh, our very own fight. Philadelphia Phillies sent out Kyle Schwarber as the DH who absolutely mashes the ball. We had Bryce Harper playing first base. They put Bobby Witt Jr., Gunner Henderson.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we had with Cal Raleigh behind the plate. The pitching staff was absolutely crazy. Tarek Scuble, Paul Skeens.
SPEAKER_02The list goes on. Logan Webb. But the thing is, man, is that we had a lineup of guys that are more than likely looking to mash the ball over the fence every time. And we got beat by guys who were beating out infield singles and slapping the ball the other way and getting on base. And our offense looked completely lost. Specifically in that last game. We lost what three to two? They couldn't put the ball in play.
SPEAKER_00Three to two to a Venezuelan team that that just couldn't seem to stop getting hits, right? They they looked like they could have had a lot more across the plate, but you know, they were just they were pesky up there. And every time something didn't go exactly perfect, they were there. And and I think that's what my biggest takeaway from it was. Um, and it's something again that that I'm used to seeing in in international competition, but it seems to be new to baseball, is this cultural concept of well, where I'm from, we play it differently. Agreed. Right? And you you get to see it a little bit when you watch 162, but when you see all of these guys on a team together, it really magnifies those things, uh, you know, and and kind of gives them a place to live, right? You you see a a Dante Bichette Jr. with his green hair, you know, uh looking all flamboyant at the plate. Rep in Brazil. But then you see him amongst the entire Brazilian team and their style of play and the culture that they bring to it, and it and it fits and it makes sense. And you go, oh, okay, it it's it's like that. Watching the Venezuelans celebrate every base hit, celebrate every strikeout, celebrate every, you know, like listening to the crowd kind of come alive and and see how uh you know how they culturally respected and represented the game, you know, it it felt big. It it felt bigger than the sport. And I think those moments, it's it's easy for us to overlook them as Philly fans, right? Because as a Philly fan, every moment is big, every sport is big. We're we're 100% in, right? Go Phils, go Eagles, go Union, go Flyers, go Sixers, like we're in. Maybe not so much for, you know, and not to knock them, but maybe not so much for the Marlins. You know, maybe not so much for the the Nets. Maybe those, you know, maybe people in DC right now are not die hard like they were for the WBC because it's easier to root for your country.
SPEAKER_02The people in DC have bigger problems than the nationals. But I agree with you, man. I think culturally we saw the differences. Uh, I agree with you 100%. And I think that was another thing that kind of disappointed me about this USA squad was that they were so business-like. You know, yeah, they got hyped and all this, and you know, maybe we in the United States celebrate things differently. But like I loved watching Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic and Venezuela and Mexico, and they had all these handshakes, and they were, you know, they had a drum what the Venezuelans had a drum in the in the dugout beforehand, and they were playing on the drum and they were all together singing and dancing and having a good time. And and maybe that's not part of the United States experience. And I think that's a shame, man, because they the Venezuelans looked like they were having a good time, and the Americans just sat there and went, frumpy. You know, from beginning to end, they never looked like they were having that much fun. And I think at the core of it, baseball is a kid's game. You guys are getting paid millions and millions of dollars to play a kid's game, or you're getting the opportunity to put on your nation's colors for a kid's game. And you're gonna sit there and look like someone just took a shit in your Cheerios. Are you kidding me? Get out there, have a good time, man. Enjoy yourself. Show the kids that are watching you that this is where they need to be, this is what they should be aspiring to be, and what they should be aspiring to play for.
SPEAKER_00Baseball being a kid's game might be one of the hottest takes of the podcast so far. Um you know, if you're coming at us, come at him. Uh, he said it. Um I do think I do think that childhood joy of of sandlop ball is, you know, and we say it with hockey, you know, remember when you were when you were on the lake, you know, with your friends, and it was, you know, it was just about fun. You you say it with soccer, you say it with basketball, you know, like football, maybe not so much, but you you say, you know, remember when you were a kid just playing the game, right? And I do think that baseball, for all its mathematical extrapolations and multi-million dollar contracts and miles and miles of statistics, I do think baseball is is more enjoyable, and I think teams are more successful when they do play like kids when they remember that when they were when they have fun. Go have fun, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I don't want to sit on the WBC for too long, but I think there's something we need to talk about for just a minute, and I think we've discussed it offline, but how is it that Team Italy had a full squad of Americans on the team? How is it that Jazz Chisholm, who I'm pretty sure is an American, was playing for Great Britain? I know there was a guy on Canada who was born in Puerto Rico, and I think you know you can discuss citizenship stuff, and I'm I'm I'm all on board with that, but I'm pretty sure Aaron Nola doesn't have dual citizenship between the United States and Italy. I'm pretty sure Michael Lorenzen doesn't have dual citizenship between Italy and the United States. Can someone please explain to me how they got a full team of Americans to go to Italy to play for Team Italy? Maybe some of those guys have never even been there. I don't know. That's crazy to me, dude.
SPEAKER_00It does feel like they kind of said, hey, who wants to play for Italy? And then just kind of looked around the room and picked some people with their hands up. Um like Brazil had a bunch of a bunch of kids that were like coming up through their youth programs and like you know, like they're trying to field a team, but that's what they got. So guess what? 16-year-old, you're pitching. You know, like they didn't. That was cool. They they didn't like call the MLB and say, Hey, can you send us someone that you know we can stick an Eno on the end of their name? You know, like that's in my head.
SPEAKER_02They got a full roster of just names that had vowels at the end, and they kind of started circling them. And then they would call them on the phone. They'd be like, Could you please say the word mozzarella? And if they said mozzarella, they'd say, Thank you for your time and hang up. They call the next guy. Hey, we see you have a valve under your name. Would you please pronounce the word mozzarella?
SPEAKER_01And he'd go, mozzarella, and they'd go, Oh, okay, step one completed. How do you pronounce Manicati? That's like the And I went the complete opposite direction.
SPEAKER_00Now I'm trying to think of who Brazil could have drafted. And all I'm coming up with is like stepping to the mound, pitching for Brazil, Shirzarinho.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there you go. But it's just it's not nearly as obvious as the Italian. If you put anything other than the godfather of Goodfellas, they told you to kick rocks.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, but shout out to the Italian team who, despite their actual citizenship, made it farther than anyone expected. They beat the United States in the in the round robin pool play, and they carried around with them game to game an espresso machine, and dudes would do espresso shots after a home run. And I think going back to our whole thing about you know having fun with the game, that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I and that's one of the things I've started to look forward to is what are the what are the dugout traditions going to be, right? With the with the cowboy hats and and the mariners have the trident and the you know the the I I look forward to that. I look forward to the little traditions of baseball, right? Like I want to see want to see the handshake when you get back from trotting around the bases. Like I I like that. I think that is a testament to the childlike nature of it, right? That is the same stuff that we got excited about during baseball when we were playing as kids. Like when I was a kid, I wasn't necessarily worried about what that at bat was going to do for my OPS. I was worried about remembering what my handshake was with my first bass coach because when I got down there, I didn't want to screw it up. Right. Right? So keep it fun, play the game for the things that we like. Now, my concern for you, and and this is where, again, you're my baseball sounding board. WBC to me, I'm watching USA play Venezuela, and I'm watching the greatest lineup I've ever seen in one place, right? Like I didn't get to see Murderer's Row play, and that wasn't a national team, and if it wasn't, they probably would have all played for Italy. Um but I'm watching what is probably the greatest lineup I've ever seen get two hits in a championship game. And to me, the PTSD of watching the Phillies not be able to put together an offense last postseason, I felt the Oh my god, not again. It was deflating. Now, what I need to know from you is while I'm standing in the outfield leaning over the high top, drooling cheesesteak all over the place, is this year's Phillies team going to bring me the same stress? Are we going to have the same problems? Are we an all or nothing? Home runs are the only way to win baseball games kind of team. And because of that, pardon my French, are we fucked?
SPEAKER_02This iteration of the Philadelphia Phillies is not that much different than the last five years. We're running back essentially the same core of guys that we've been running back since we signed Kyle Schwarber and Nick Castellanos four years ago, five years ago. And I think that we are going to see a very similar team just a year older. You know, Trey Turner won a batting title last year, and I'm not expecting him to take too much off of that, but his spring training has been pretty awful. He can't swing the bat right now. We replaced a Max Kepler with an Adulus Garcia, who two years ago was mashing the baseball, but who is basically a placeholder until we can figure out what our right field situation is going to be in the long term. Because Adulus Garcia is here on a one-year. JT Ramuto is no spring chicken. Bryce Harbour's getting older. Bryson Stott at second base is a gold glove candidate every year, but his bat has never caught up to his glove. You never know what you're going to get with an Alec Bohm. Brandon Marsh is the same way. And you're running out a rookie in center field in the form of Justin Crawford, who thank God, because I'm tired of hearing about how much he's been doing in the minors for the last four years. Your pitching staff got a little bit weaker because you got rid of Ranger Suarez to the Boston Red Sox. Zach Wheeler's not even going to be on the hill for you to start off with this year. I don't think we get him till at least May, who is a perennial Cy Young candidate and got screwed two years ago on the Cy Young. But you're also bringing up a guy in Andrew Painter, who has been at the top of the you know, pitching best prospects for the last two years, three years, and there's some excitement there. But I think what you have with the Phillies this year is a team of very good veteran players, a couple of all-star players, one future Hall of Famer for certain. And then a lot of guys you just don't really know what their story is gonna be. Is Bryson stock gonna wake his bat up and just get on base? He's fast, just get on base. Alec Boehm never turned into the power hitter they thought he was gonna be, but the guy can rake doubles, so let's see some doubles out of you. But the thing with this Phillies team that has bugged me for the last two to three years was it looks business like in the dugout. They don't do the home run hats anymore, they don't do the handshakes down the bench anymore. They just seem like a bunch of dudes who are expecting to go to the playoffs, which I like, but there are a bunch of dudes that expect to go to the playoffs and don't really give a shit until the playoffs start. And that to me is concerning. You can't go about this business like every day. It's a 162-game grind. You got to get out there and have some fun. And it starts at the top with Bryce Harper, who came into this city as public enemy number one as far as baseball was concerned, and embraced Philadelphia in every aspect of this city. And we in turn embraced him back. He was wearing the fanatic on his cleats and on his belt, and he was lining the inside of his suit coat to get to the stadium with the fanatic and with Philadelphia this, that, and the other. And that's that dude has to be the heartbeat of the team. And if he's gonna be Mr. You know, CEO business meeting guy, instead of, hey, I'm playing a game that I've been paid very well to play for a very long time, I think you're gonna see another repeat of last year where they go cold and they just stay cold. Yeah, they might win 90 games this year, they might take the East, but I mean, when it comes playoff time, when those lights shine the brightest, have we had fun this year or are we gonna just collapse under the pressure of needing to win this World Series this year?
SPEAKER_00That's my biggest concern. I because I feel that. Like I feel that if we don't win one soon, we're we're gonna miss out on this sort of iterations ability to to do it, right? You you say they're getting older, everybody's a year older, and some of them are better for it, and some of them aren't. And and I think that's definitely something to to be concerned about. I mean, there's a couple people, and Ranger was one of them, uh, that I I wasn't ready to see. Now, I think we got a bit of a bum rep because we did end up running the same team back last year unintentionally, right? Harrison Bader got hurt. Um, Jose Alvarado and John Duran kind of became interchangeable in terms of we had a power closer, we lost a power closer, we got a power closer. So I was interested in seeing, you know, Bader sort of had that the pink elbow guard, the he's mic'd up in center field, he's having a good time, he brings some pop to the plate, he he gets on base, he runs around, and and right when we were about to see what kind of a difference that could make, he went down. And what we were left with was, oh, look, it's the same team again. So unless, but when you look at that team and you look at every position and you say, All right, you don't want Bryce Harper at first base, who would you rather have at first base? There aren't a whole lot of people I want more than Bryce Harper. I didn't say that. You know, you want Bryce Harper at first base. You get to catcher and you go, okay, JT Romeuto, like he's getting up there, he's getting older. Who would you rather have than JT? There aren't a whole lot of people that I put above him. You know, like and and I I do that a lot of the way around the field. You know, okay, you you're not a million percent solid on maybe a Brandon Marsh. You don't know what a Crawford brings to the to the field yet, but you can acknowledge that every team should be bringing up a rookie and has a guy that can kind of go either way, depending on which way the wind blows, because Marsh has had his streaks. So I just I can't I'm still behind this team because because yeah, okay, maybe Bo Bachet in the offseason that would have been cool. Like, but it it doesn't look like a team that needs an overhaul. It looks like a team that's missing one or two pieces. It needs to perform, yeah. I agree. But the pieces that are there need to play to how much longer does Bryce get a pass? You know, like at what point are you not Bryce Harper anymore because you're not playing like Bryce Harper anymore?
SPEAKER_02Well, see, now that's that's a big thing. You know, Dave Dombrowski came out, the uh was he president of baseball operations. He came out and said that Bryce didn't have an elite season and all of this and didn't look like Bryce Harper. And Bryce Harper hit 24 home runs, he hit uh upper 200s, you know, he had a solid season, maybe not by his own standards or the standards that he set for himself. But to have the president come out and say that he didn't do that, I thought was a stupid thing to do in the first place. But what I did like was that the very next day you see Harper in the cage, he's got a shirt on that says not elite. So I'm hoping that what we see out of a guy like Bryce Harper is that he takes that kind of stuff and and and and puts it puts a fuel under him, a fire under him. Because I think that he saw his best years in in Washington when everybody hated him, when he had some fire, when he had something to fight for, when he had to prove people something something, you know, and now he's got something to prove, I think. Whether we want to admit Dave Dombrowski was right or not, because I don't think he was right, but Bryce Harper now has it's now in the back of our minds, we're gonna hear Dombrowski every time he strikes out, every time he, you know, lollipops a uh a can of corn out to right field. You're gonna hear Dombrowski, well, maybe he's not elite anymore. And I think a guy like Bryce Harper needs that. Well, would you be a dick on the baseball field, but he also needs to have a little fun?
SPEAKER_00Well, that's that's two directions. First one first, would you say that he was not the face of the Phillies last year? Absolutely Trey Turner put up a batting title, you had Kyle Schwarber hitting a home run title, was were they more prominent than you know, you had you had Christopher Sanchez, who you can make an argument for, you know, uh putting up numbers that would make him the face of a franchise last year. Were they more prominent than Harper? And does Harper need to earn his place back on that pedestal?
SPEAKER_02I think if you were to take every name that you just said and put it on a list and hand it to somebody who's not a baseball enthusiast, the name on that paper they're going to recognize is Bryce Harper. As long as Bryce Harper has pinstripes on, Bryce Harper is going to be the face of the Philadelphia Phillies. Bryce Harper was on the cover of Sports Illustrated magazine as a 16-year-old. You know, he went to JUCO for a year at 17 so he could go up and play at 18 in the minors, and he made his major league debut, I believe he was 19 years old. That guy is going to be the face of this franchise until he's done wearing pinstripes. But that all being said, because we have a local, you know, window to look through, we know that Christopher Sanchez was out there. But was Christopher Sanchez making headlines even though he came on runner-up for the Cy Young? Kyle Schwarber was mashing the ball, absolutely, hit what, 58 or something last year? But Cal Raleigh out in Seattle was taking the national headlines because he was hitting 60 from both sides of the plate in Seattle as a catcher. I think that Bryce Harper doesn't have to earn his place back as the face of the franchise, but Bryce Harper needs to find that fire in him again that endears him to the people of Philadelphia. Find that grit, find whatever it is that puts you in that class above. Cause at this point in his career, if he called it a day tomorrow, in my opinion, he's first ballot Hall of Fame. Two MVPs, rookie of the year, two time um home run derby champion, you know, probably at what a career average, probably around 297, 290 something in there, 280, maybe. That's a first ballot Hall of Fame career. Career this guy's put together already. Not to mention he seamlessly went from right field to first base and didn't skip a beat. And I would put that dude in the top 10, maybe even five, in terms of defensive first baseman in the league right now.
SPEAKER_00Well, he just played for team USA. Team USA.
SPEAKER_02That's exactly right. And hit the two-run home run that tied the game in the championship because that dude shines when the lights are on. But no, I don't think he needs to earn his place. I think he just needs to remember he's Bryce fucking Harper and go out there and play the game.
SPEAKER_00See, he seems to me to be the type that and maybe it's just because we haven't seen it recently, but he does seem to be motivated more by the underdog mentality than by the let's go have fun mentality. Right? He seems like he's not playing at his best unless he's proving someone wrong, right? Unless he's pissed off about it and he's coming into this with you know fire and vengeance and wrath and all of that. Whereas I do think, and maybe this comes like the cheesesteak, maybe it's just a Philly thing. Like maybe this is just we are underdogs, we perform better when you tell us we can't, uh, you know, we're that's just the rebellion of Philadelphia played out through sports, right? And that's why we embrace him because if you tell him he can't do it, he's gonna prove that he can. But I do want to see, you know, if that's the case, where do the other guys find their fun from? Right? Because I think the Bohmes and the Stots and the Crawfords and the Marshes do benefit from fun, right? Not not silly. We don't want to go back to the to the daycare stuff they were doing a couple years ago, but but fun.
SPEAKER_02What happened to the home run hats? You know, what happened to all that stuff? I mean, I to be honest with you, I could I don't need that. I don't need there to be a home run hat. I don't need there to be the the samurai helmet that they have in LA or the the trident in Seattle. That doesn't need to be our thing, but we need to have a thing. You know, I think that this team has been associated with, you know, that dancing on my own song, and you know, that was fun, and that became a thing for us. And, you know, uh keep it loose and sexy, baby, was uh Brandon Marsh's name for the band that he was going to form if he had some other players with him that they asked him while he was playing left field in a mic'ed up situation. You know, there are all these things that we have that that can be fun for us, but we don't necessarily see it in the dugout on a game-to-game basis. And again, it's 162 games. I understand it. And not every day, you're everybody on the squad's gonna be up. But like you gotta find a way, like you said, to get those young guys having a good time. And it does start with Harbor, man. I think if you get too business-like about it, you get to that spot where you're on the cusp of greatness and you just fall up short because you're you've been under such an intense regimen of pressure and and stress and stuff, and you're not having a good time. Keep it loose and sexy, baby.
SPEAKER_00But that seems to be what we've seen from Harper, right? Is that he gets he gets frustrated, he gets down on himself, he you know, he he goes 0 for three and he stops running to first base, and you know, he he he wears that on his sleeve, right? Are are we saying that we saying that as a leader he needs to sort of take more responsibility for the message that he's relaying to the kids? Yes, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02And I think that he's maybe not the outspoken leader. Like, let's go back to the 08 team. The 2008 Philadelphia Phillies, my all-time favorite baseball team ever assembled, with my all-time favorite baseball player at second base, Chase Udley. Chase Udley was a leader, if not the leader, in the clubhouse. You know, he was a guy that led by example. And then you had a guy like Jimmy Rollins, who was the mouthpiece of the squad. He was the guy that's saying that they were the team to beat in the East. He was the guy that was out there, you know, filling that fun leadership role. But he backed it up with his play. You know, Jimmy Rollins, the fact that he is still so far down on the Hall of Fame percentage necessary vote is ridiculous to me, but that's a conversation for another day. But the difference between the 08 squad and this squad that we have now, their perennial World Series favorites, at least to go to the World Series over the last four years or so, you know, they're not they don't look like they're out there enjoying themselves.
SPEAKER_00So you'd say that that Chase was the the technical precision and and Jimmy was the was the the leadership, right? Yeah. So if Bryce is gonna be our our technical precision and and Schwarber's gonna be our Howard, right? He's gonna be our power. Who's our Jimmy? Is it Trey? Does it need to be Trey?
SPEAKER_02You ever heard Trey talk?
SPEAKER_00So then who who someone needs to step up then? It needs to be a a JT or it needs to be who?
SPEAKER_02I I that's I think that's the problem. I think that you need that guy out there that's gonna shake things up a little bit. You need a little bit of of pizzazz.
SPEAKER_00See, and that brings me back to Bader because I feel like it could have been him.
SPEAKER_02He could have had he has pizzazz and a hell of a head of hair on him. I think though, to be honest with you, uh this Phillies team has as good a chance as any. And I think that we got real swept up in 22. I think was it 22, 23? 23, I think. When we weren't supposed to go to the series, and we went to the series, it was the most fun I've had watching baseball since you know the 2007, 8, 9, 10, 11 Phillies. And then it was we were just glad to be there. So we had fun, you know. And then the next year it was like, oh, okay, well, you know, maybe we're not supposed to be there, but we got close again, and then we collapsed, and then we get close again, but now we're further away than we were the year before. And that's the progression that this team has gone through. And it's a direct parallel to the aftermath of the 08 squad. The 08 squad wins the World Series, the next year they lose the NLCS, the year next year they lose the NLDS, and the year after that, they miss the playoffs completely. We lost the World Series, we lost in the NLCS, we've lost the NLDS. Where do we go from here? So it's going to be up to them to determine their legacy because right now, this team, this core of guys, while we've had moments of absolute brilliance and we saw a 90-plus game winning campaign last year end in one of the absolute worst ways I've ever seen a baseball game finish in my life. And that includes watching Joe Carter hit a home run in '93 to win the World Series for the Blue Jays. The legacy of this core of guys is going to be whether or not they can get over the hump, whether or not they can bring a World Series to Philadelphia. Bryce Harper was brought here specifically to win a World Series, and every move that the front office has made this since then has been to put the best group of guys they can to win a World Series right now because the window is closing, the guys are getting older, and it's only a matter of time before this group of dudes is no longer together. So it is absolutely a must-win World Series season for the Phillies, I think. But can they do it? I I don't know. I don't see it being that much different of a team than it was last year.
SPEAKER_00And if you're gonna keep the same roster together, then much like this episode, uh, we're running out of time. So it we're really gonna need to see how how it's going to be different early on, or we're not gonna trust it. Right? It as a Phillies fan, if this looks like the same team you know through the first couple of weeks, is is it uh is it going to be enough to convince you that okay, let's just get to the playoffs and we'll figure it out again, or do you want to see that this team is different the whole way through?
SPEAKER_02Last year's team won 90 plus games, and we were on a trajectory to go farther in October than we did uh at the end of it. If we are on the same projection that we were last year and we're winning games and all of this, I'll be a happy camper. But when we get to the playoffs, I think there's there's a feeling when you walk into the playoffs. And I think the feeling last with last year's team for me personally was that you know there were holes and we were getting cold at a time when we couldn't afford to get cold. It's gonna be all about consistency with this lineup, it's gonna be about consistency with the pitching staff, and it's gonna be about what do we do to make the team better. If we're cruising along, come the trade deadline. Who are you going to bring me that's going to get us over the hump? Who are they willing to part ways with in order to make this team the team that's going to go and bring us a championship for the first time since 2008? I have faith that this team is going to produce. I have faith that it's going to be a fun baseball season. I'm really looking forward to getting my kids to the park and seeing as many ball games as we possibly can. And we've been talking about potentially going down to Baltimore and Washington and up to New York to see some games and you know, all that good stuff. But I think at the end of the day, to wrap everything up with a nice little bow, go fills, and thank God baseball is back.
SPEAKER_00If we see at the park, next round's on us. Cheers.